'As long as there is an interest, there is a right to exist'

What was it like to get a TOP loan - forty years ago for yourself already?

'We got three, because there were three of us in public administration, and the loan was personal at the time. We founded PNO Consultants (Pecunia Non Olet, Latin for 'money doesn't stink', ed.) and wanted to specialise in subsidy applications. To be honest: we would have started the company even without the TOP loan. However, the loan was low risk-bearing. If the company was doing well, you paid it back, otherwise you didn't. Our operating costs as consultants were low. Our office at the UT was free, and we only needed business cards. With the money, we bought three good cars, so that we could easily travel all over the country. It certainly helped in that sense.'

What is the relevance of such a financial arrangement in the present time?

'There are still start-up entrepreneurs who need it to cover certain operating costs. So it definitely still has a right to exist. If other means are introduced, such as programmes with less risk or larger amounts, the relevance may decrease. But the TOP scheme has a permanent place in the series of financial incentives for starting entrepreneurs, and that can easily remain the case. As long as there is interest in it, there is a right to exist, and the TOP loan can last another forty years.'

What challenges do today's starting entrepreneurs face?

'The issues have basically remained the same. It is often about the market, technology, the financial picture, human resources, legal affairs, and contracts. Of course, things have been modernised, but in essence they are the same as about twenty or thirty years ago.'

Lars Pieké 

And the entrepreneur himself?

'The essence of a starting entrepreneur has not changed in forty years either. They are still enthusiastic young people, who want to go all the way, sometimes lose themselves in ideas, but are headstrong and have an enormous drive. That makes it interesting for me to still be involved.'

And that's what you are as a member of the TOP commission ...

'That's right. When we study an application, we look at the feasibility of the plan. How realistic is it, and how is the team structured? Most starters do not yet have a ready-made product, prototype, or model to show. Everything is still under development. That is why we mainly assess how well thought-out, innovative, and scalable the business model is.'

If you compare with Eindhoven and Delft, how is Twente doing in terms of start-ups?

'Each region has its own regional infrastructure for entrepreneurs. A healthy, mutual competition exists between regions with technical universities, but in the end it is all about Dutch start-ups that often focus on a global market after the establishment phase. They start regionally, using local infrastructure, but then it starts coming in from all directions. Entrepreneurs can now access and reach the whole world. That was different forty years ago.'

Do tell us more ....

'In the eighties, there were two people working at what was then called the Transfer Point. Today’s Novel-T is a professional organisation with a whole network of investors, knowledge, and expertise. It has improved enormously, the entrepreneurial landscape has become much more accessible and insightful.'

Back to the time of PNO Consultants. You bought three cars. What happened next?

'We were doing great. In twenty years, we grew to two hundred employees. That was really special at the time. Partly because of this, we were seen as a successful UT spin-off. Nowadays, all three of us have left. I was the last one, in 2001. I still play padel with one of my business partners every week. I can also be found on campus about two or three times a week for consultations. And I love doing that. Young entrepreneurs just give energy.'